Culture wars is ‘a dog whistle to attack the right’ says Badenoch
An audience member is asking Badenoch about culture wars. “When people use the phrase, it is a dog whistle to attack the right,” she says. “We are defending our culture, we are defending our country.”
It is about doing what is right for our country and following conviction, she adds, before giving the Guardian yet another shout-out.
“It is about being brave and not being scared that the Guardian is going to try and mock us, they are going to do that whoever the leader is”, she says.
Key events
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Closing summary
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‘It isn’t always women that have parental responsibility,’ Badenoch says after Chope attack
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Culture wars is ‘a dog whistle to attack the right’ says Badenoch
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Leaving ECHR not ‘a silver bullet’ to control migration, says Badenoch
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‘People run to the Guardian to tell lies about me,’ says Badenoch
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Chope’s comments on Badenoch ‘definitely wrong’, says Jenrick
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Applause for Jenrick’s call to take foreign aid money to spend on defence
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‘We need a new generation to believe in us,’ says Jenrick
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Jenrick told immigration ‘ballooned’ when he was in government
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Jenrick and Badenoch to face off in GB News showdown
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Welfare watchdog criticises government for rushing winter fuel payment cut, and calls for full impact assessment
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Farage given free team of US PR advisers by former Bannon aide’s firm
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House of Commons invites people to send in ideas about how to make it less sleazy and more effective
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Paul Johnson to leave influential IFS economics thinktank
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Amnesty International urges Lammy to challenge China over its ‘brutal suppression of human rights’ during forthcoming visit
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Chope defends jibe about Badenoch, claiming she prefers family time to visiting ‘far-flung constituencies’
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Half of Tory councillors do not believe Jenrick or Badenoch can win next election, poll suggests
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Jenrick hits back at Gove after ‘Tory boy’ jibe, saying ex-minister to blame for much of ‘infighting’ that took down Tories
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School absences in England at 6.9%, down on previous year, but still well above pre-pandemic levels, DfE says
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No 10 says departments need to become ‘more productive’, as it plays down reports of cabinet rifts over spending
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Tory MP claims Badenoch would not make good Tory leader because she’s ‘preoccupied’ with 3 young children
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Magistrates to get longer sentencing powers to reduce backlog in crown courts, and cut overcrowding in remand jails, MPs told
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Foreign Office announces fresh sanctions against Russian oil tankers
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MP behind assisted dying bill invites archbishop of Canterbury to meeting
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Reeves reportedly planning to raise capital gains tax – but not for second homes
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Badenoch says she would offer JK Rowling peerage
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Phillipson says nursery place shortages ‘very stark’, with half of England 10% down on what’s needed for 30-hour offer
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John Healey confirms plans for British troops to be on standby to defend Estonia under new pact
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Gove suggests Jenrick could hold Conservatives back because he looks like ‘Tory boy’
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Education secretary Bridget Phillipson won’t say if she’s among ministers writing to PM about budget settlement
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Tories would do better with Jenrick as leader than Badenoch, poll suggests ahead of leadership hustings
You can read our report on the debate by our senior political correspondent Peter Walker here
Closing summary
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Conservative leadership candidates Kemi Badenoch and Robert Jenrick took part in a GB News special tonight, setting out their vision for the Tory party. Moderated by Christopher Hope, the candidates covered subjects including immigration, culture wars and the European Court of Human Rights.
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Badenoch hit back at a Tory MP’s suggestion that she could not lead the party because she was too “preoccupied” with her children, saying “it isn’t always women who have parental responsibilities”. The Conservative leadership candidate was asked about the remarks made by Christopher Chope earlier on Thursday.
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Asked about the bullying allegations first published by the Guardian, she said “of course they run to the Guardian to tell lies about me”. It’s because she got the bad people out of her department, she says.
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Badenoch said she is an “engineer” who can fix the “broken system” and renew the Tory party. In her pitch to members, the leadership hopeful told the GB News debate: “This broken system is going to need an engineer to fix it. I am an engineer. But I cannot fix it without your help, that is why I’m asking for your support today. Together, we can do this. Together, we can fix the system that is broken. Together, we can renew.”
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Badenoch said Nigel Farage speaks with “clarity” and “conviction”. She told the GB News Tory leadership debate: “Nigel Farage speaks with clarity, he speaks with conviction. When people hear him speak, they believe that he understands their concerns. For a long time, when we were speaking, people just heard this technocratic, managerialist language that didn’t mean very much to people. It was all policy and no principles, that is why I keep emphasising principles.”
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Meanwhile, Jenrick claimed the government had relinquished sovereignty of the Chagos Islands “so that David Lammy can feel better when he goes to a dinner party in north London”. The Tory leadership hopeful told the GB News debate: “David Lammy and Keir Starmer have just handed sovereign British territory with a critical military base on it to a close ally of China. Why? So that David Lammy can feel better when he goes to a dinner party in north London. Whose interests does he think he serves?”
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Jenrick said he would cap migration in “the tens of thousands or lower” if he were in charge. Asked to put a number on his pledge to cap the number of people entering the UK, he said: “I would do the tens of thousands or lower. The most important point is we’ve got to get parliament to do this so we can look the public in the eye this time and say it’s actually going to happen.” He denied he was just making hardline remarks on immigration to win over Tory members.
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Jenrick claimed he had argued against the depletion of the armed forces while he served as a minister in the previous Tory government. He said: “Because I’m a fiscal Conservative, the easiest thing in the world would be to say you today, let’s spend more money on the armed forces without saying how are we going to get this money. I don’t want taxes to rise, I don’t want the state to get bigger, so I’ve said let’s take that money from our international aid budget and let’s spend it on our armed forces. That is the best way.”
That’s all from me, Tom Ambrose, for tonight. Thanks for following along throughout what was, admittedly, not one of the great political TV specials of our time. Have a very pleasant evening, nevertheless.
The GB News special ended about half an hour ago but if you were left hungry for more from the leadership special, here is a smorgasbord of reaction on X:
Robert Jenrick, is 42 years old. He’s just said on GB News that he has “served in the government of the last five prime ministers.” Just completely hilarious that that is actually true.
— Tom Peck (@tompeck) October 17, 2024
Robert Jenrick couldn’t appear less substantial if he tried in leadership debate
— John Crace (@JohnJCrace) October 17, 2024
This was probably Robert Jenrick’s last chance to change the course of the Tory leadership race. Kemi Badenoch romped it.
— (((Dan Hodges))) (@DPJHodges) October 17, 2024
It’s really impressive that Robert Jenrick managed to rise to Cabinet level when it turns out that he spent his whole time in office arguing against everything the government was doing.
— Robert Hutton (@RobDotHutton) October 17, 2024
Kemi Badenoch is knocking it out of the park on #GBNews debate tonight. She’s raw, but she’s got that magical something required of political leaders. She would be a formidable leader of the opposition.
— Sasha Swire (@SashaSwire) October 17, 2024
Robert Jenrick’s team has said “politicians should have policies” after his leadership rival Kemi Badenoch spent much of her pitch to members suggesting that “principles” are a bigger priority.
A spokesperson for Jenrick said: “Politicians should have policies – they do matter. None more so than on immigration.
“We won’t regain people’s trust unless we set out what we’d do differently this time.
“After the comparative performances tonight, the case for a real head-to-head debate is even stronger. Party members deserve to see these candidates debate the big challenges facing our country.”
There we go then. It’s over.
A poll of raised hands in the studio audience indicates an overwhelming majority would prefer Kemi Badenoch as Tory leader.
Jenrick, although light on policy, did at least set out his stall for what his leadership would look like. It mainly involves re-running the ECHR as a sort of Brexit 2.0. He wants people to decide if they are “leave or remain” like it’s 2016 all over again.
By contrast, Badenoch was very open in admitting she had not given much thought to policy, instead focusing much of her time on culture war issues and her general dislike for the Guardian.
Should we be embarrassed about our colonial past? “No … there are many countries now that want to use guilt to exploit the UK,” she says. “These arguments are a scam – don’t fall for it.”
Would you reverse VAT on private school bills? “That is the very first thing I would do if I become prime minister,” she says, before quickly clarifying “or one of the first things I will do”.
Do you allow your children to use social media? “No.”
Have you ever taken drugs? “No, never.”
Would you legalise cannabis? “No.”
Would you bring back fox hunting? She says it’s not a priority for her right now.
Donald Trump or Kamala Harris? “I like both of them equally,” she says, laughing.
Would Nigel Farage be welcome as a Tory member? “We are a broad church but if somebody says they want to burn your church down, you don’t let them in.”
Assisted suicide – how would you vote? “Let’s see what that bill looks like.”
‘It isn’t always women that have parental responsibility,’ Badenoch says after Chope attack
Are you being mean to Rob Jenrick by saying “if we get this wrong, there could be no party”? Badenoch says “we have to fight for our survival, we cannot be complacent”, referencing Reform as a big threat.
What is Jenrick’s biggest weakness? “The weakness is in the argument that is made,” she says. “I think the ECHR argument is not the right one. It will divide our party and mean infighting will continue”. She adds that if we want to “end the drama” (used the old catchphrase against him there), the party needs to come together and find consensus.
Is it possible to be party leader while being a mum? “Yes,” she says. “I might remind [Christopher Chope] that it isn’t always women that have parental responsibilities.”
Should we pay stay-at-home parents? “We should look again at taxation on a family basis,” she says. “Those people that stay at home to look after children are providing a great contribution … and make it as easy for them as is possible to do so”.
Asked how she plans to get more out of the NHS, Badenoch says she wants reforms to be carried out in partnership with the service.
“We have given it more money than before, we literally put a sign on the side of a bus,” she says. “Many people don’t know that we gave it double that.”
And that’s it for the live audience segment of Badenoch’s pitch to Tory members. Next up, it’s the quick-fire questions from people at home.
Culture wars is ‘a dog whistle to attack the right’ says Badenoch
An audience member is asking Badenoch about culture wars. “When people use the phrase, it is a dog whistle to attack the right,” she says. “We are defending our culture, we are defending our country.”
It is about doing what is right for our country and following conviction, she adds, before giving the Guardian yet another shout-out.
“It is about being brave and not being scared that the Guardian is going to try and mock us, they are going to do that whoever the leader is”, she says.
Leaving ECHR not ‘a silver bullet’ to control migration, says Badenoch
We are back on to the ECHR. Badenoch is asked if she agrees with Jenrick about leaving the ECHR.
“If we need to leave the ECHR to control migration, then we should do it,” she says. “But it is not a silver bullet.”
Harking back to the same question Jenrick faced, she raises the fact that other countries are able to deport people easier than Britain.
She says Northern Ireland and women’s rights are areas that need to be considered before a decision to leave the ECHR is taken.
“I will have a wholesale strategy [on immigration] across govenment. Numbers matter, culture matters more,” she says. “We all need to be moving in the same direction.”
When asked to put a figure on migration by Hope, she backtracks and says “it’s not about the numbers”. Thirty seconds ago, she said “numbers matter”.
There is no point leaving the EU, if you continue to do what the EU is doing, Badenoch says when pressed on whether Brexit has been a success.
“One of the reasons Brexit hasn’t been as much of a success as it should be is that we didn’t start with a plan,” she says.
She doesn’t like how “everything is blamed on Brexit”, she says. “Stop blaming Brexit for our problems.”
Hope says Badenoch had the chance to resolve problems with Brexit in government but didn’t.
She adds: “I was very much against a bonfire of all regulations without thinking about the consequences. Why? Because I am an engineer.”
Is “I’m an engineer” going to become the new “I’m the son of a toolmaker”? Only time will tell.
A question from the audience now about the planning system and what sort of reforms she might consider.
“The planning system is a mess and is one of the areas that needs reform,” she says. “We don’t pay our planning officers enough.”
Badenoch goes on to say that people are right to not want pylons built near their homes or have greenbelt land developed for housing.
She says the problem is that net zero targets were created without a plan (the plan needs to be based on Conservative principles though, she adds).
‘People run to the Guardian to tell lies about me,’ says Badenoch
Asked about the bullying allegations first published by the Guardian, she says “of course they run to the Guardian to tell lies about me”.
It’s because she got the bad people out of her department, she says.
“I don’t know how many of you believe what you read in the Guardian, but if you do, then you wouldn’t be here on GB News,” she says. Charming.
Hope asks if she is asking Tory members to vote for her based on trust and without the “nuts and bolts” of policies.
“I am somebody who you know delivers, I am somebody you know has a track record, you can trust me,” she says.
The policies will come, she adds. She wants to build a consensus first and wants to build a big team for the future.
Applause follows and, dare I say it, even some whooping.
